Feedback: False Witness

13 feedback items found, listing newest first

I see over and over again the two following things in these us vs. them arguments. 1. is the "we may have done this but you did it first." 2. and "those that did this is not use but you have a history of doing it to." Now I dont just see it on one side but on all sides. I think it needs to stop now. I will not forgive Christians for there is nothing to forgive. I dont blame modern Christians for anything. I ask only one thing, give me the same as I just gave. No blame for the past, no controversy over the past. Let use talk of the present about those who stand in the way of freedom, let of talk of a world where there is no fear of others faith. I wish you Bright Blessings in the name of the devine by all the names and no name.

one problem with just about every religion is a lack of understanding by some who practice a certain religion and by some who oppose it. We are all human correct? we have all made mistakes? we have all judged someone or something in our lifetime have we not?. yeah unfortunatly we're not perfect ,pagan ,christian whatever. any one who forces people to worship god is not a christian. Sometimes the word religion is the problem. Any one who wishes to kill others because of the way they live isn't a christian. the whole teaching of what Jesus stood for is against these claims. Unfortunately History provides us of evidence how un perfect humans can be. Especially those who claim to do wrong for a higher being. misuse of power and religion has been evident from the begining. i will tell you that i am a person who loves god with all my heart i am open to hearing from others and i am a freind to all. To me anyone can say there a christian but it's our actions, words, and lives that say more about what kind of person we are, it's not about religion it's about a personal relationship, it's not what others have forced upon me; it's something you search for on your own. it's about using your common sense. If you're searching with an open heart and you find something that reveals itself real to you then you take it you have faith and believe. You don't do it cause others show you or have told you , or because what you see your favourite scholar or even movie star doing and believing. because in the end it's just you. I found it and it was Jesus and i'm not ashamed to say it. When i found it i saw cleary the wrong and the right, doesn't mean i always did the right but i'm gonna spend the rest of my life tryin. don't be so quick to judge others by the knowledge that you have of your own because sometimes we can't know everyones situation or even our knowledge can be off.and others don't be so quick to judge those that believe in something as you don't know for sure if what they have is real or not. All we can do is try to listen and help others and not hate and judge regardless of their religion or culture after all Jesus was a freind of theives , prostitutes, women, pagans, murderers, adulterers, liars and all the people of the earth,he knew we were all similar we could have the same faults the same fears the same problems,tha's why he came cus he knew we wern't perfect but he still loved us all.

I myself am neither Pagan nor Christian. Having studied many beliefs I have attempted to find the best of all and taken only what seems to work. That being said... 1) The Romans were the ones who killed the Christians in the colleseum. They were NOT considered Pagans, just because some Christian groups call them Pagan now. 2) The Romans also tried to wipe out the Druids. And the Druids were most definitely considered Pagans - by the Romans! 3) Just because some extremist Christians have persecuted Pagans, witches, Jews, and just about any other group you can think of at some time or other does not invalidate the teachings of Jesus - he would no doubt be appalled at a majority of what has been done and taught in his name - like the Inquisition, witch-trials & burnings, and the rampant hypocrisy (sp?) in many so-called Christian churches, including the Catholic church. Just check into the news and it's easy to find stories of "Christian" leaders abusing their positions. However, that is NOT what Jesus taught. Look at what you can find of what Jesus taught and you will find quite a surprise! 4) Just because some extremist non-Christians have persecuted Christians, Pagans, Jews, and just about any other group you can think of at some time or other does not invalidate the best teachings of those groups (do you see a pattern here?). There were non-Christian groups (including Pagans) that performed atrocities, including human sacrifice/ritual murder. However, modern Paganism (or Neo-Paganism) is a new religion that was started in the late 19th or early 20th century, and takes some of the best teachings of non-Christian religions and makes something entirely new and worth checking out! What I have seen in Neo-Paganism is a mixture of Eastern philosophy (karma, yin-yang, etc...) plus some nature and/or pantheistic worship from around the world (including Russia, Australia, Native American, and Celtic lands), plus some Judeo-Christian mysticism (e.g. the Kaballah and teachings from early Christian mystics). The resulting mix is something unique, and though it has taken a name from the past and some of the teachings from earlier, non-Christian religions, let us not assume it is the same thing. Check it out, you might find something truly interesting! In summary, let's put the angry, defensive verbage on the shelf, open our ears and our hearts to the best of what each other has to say, ignore the hurtful things that some will say regardless, and possibly learn something new and useful!

Do you understand that the Romans were considered pagans before christianity? Remember Zeus and the gods/godesses... Yes a very similar pagan tradition just like the european pagans.. please you must be fully informed before making judgements on the pagan traditions

I cannot think of one religion in this world that has not lied and cheated in the past to convert the masses to their way of thinking. However, the pagans fought long and hard for their land and their culture, but were unfortunately defeated by christianity and the armies that supported the cause. The pagans lived a life in harmony with the seasons and the land and earth. If a peaceful existance with the land and Mother nature was the way we lived our lives today.. do you think we would have the threat of global warming? Just try to imagine what things may have been like if paganism had won? It really makes you think.....?

The fact is that christains today are still pursecuting pagans. In the U.S, alone, christians are trying to change the laws, so wicca will not be recognised as a religion. Trying to change the constution to force people to worship christ and make it a christian nation. And there are more than a few christain pastors that would kill pagans today, if the law would allow it. The fact is , christians have continued thier history of pursecuting pagans, it has never stopped. Where as pagans have done nothing against the christains. That is fact.

I want to hear more about this. I as a starting to practice grew to despise christians for what they did. But this topics show opened me to other things. I was just in the witches hunt but i did not know it go further. ^_^ Pastor are you? let me see.. Can you post more comments???? And please the one who typed the comment hmmmm something answer everything the pastor will post. "Yawn" I know that the Church is in almost all way is wrong and i'm now in the topic of trinity(the whole three in one thing) and church spreading this belief which was not in the bible the holy book.

It's time people oppened their eyes and stopped making judgments. Most cristians close their eyes and refuse to see the truth, even when it is shown right in font of them. I once tried to explain to a cristian what witchraft was all about and she said "how you know you're not worhipping the devil?" it almost seems they enjoy believing this, they are eager to hate. Doesn't the bible say something about not passing judgment?

May I remind you, it was the romans who fed the cristains to the lions? Not the wiccans. The wiccans and the Romans are very different, as different as apples and lemons. The wiccans had nothing to do with it. Get your facts straight before you accuse.

I have to say that after reading this post I was very happy to see some Christians that understand Pagans. But then I read what our dear pastor said and now I am appalled. I for one never asked any Christian to lay down on any altar and offer themselves up to me as sacrifice for the deeds of someone elses misbehaviour. The fact that this was said has pretty much told me that the pastor has missed the point of this essay completely. Yes I have said, even though I am pagan, why are you whining about what Christians did to us, pagans have done the same thing to others. But who in what religion hasn't. It is not because of religion these people do these things, it's not because of their gods or god, it is because of them, because it is human instinct to hurt and declare dominance by hurting. I for one will not apologize to you for what someone else did and I would never ask you to apologize to me. I wonder to myself where you get all your knowledge of the actual Christian and Pagan beliefs, was it from Christian bias literature or did you actually go and study from someone who is none bias at all either way.

Murder and torture are not consistent with pagan belief. When the Roman government hung people on crosses let us not forget that they were not all Christians, I seem to recall that the two men that hung either side of Jesus were actually thieves and murderers. And may I also say that in the time that these Christians were being eaten by lions they were not the only ones, criminals were put in these arenas not Christians specifically, and at the time of these incidences, Christians were standing in the streets preaching their religion was the only way and causing upheavel and turning the people against the Gorvernment. The Government did not punish them because they were Christian they punished them because they were conspiring against the state.

I would really like to know where you got your information from because it sounds very one sided to me. But call me a liar cause that's all you have to say to me because you think you are right and will never see it a different way. It's sad really.

To whomever wrote this article, I am glad you have attempted to have an open mind on these religious views but the truth is, with the example Jerry gave us there is just no talking to some who think they know everything and don't wish to know more.

it might be worth noting that christians effectivily "wiped out" the old form of wicca. what we have today was re-invented by gerold gardiner (not sure if i spelled it correctly) Wiccans did not wipe out christianity. hence wiccans were much more vilified by christians then the other vice versa also please direct me to the source of information about the brutal things pagans done to christians, i have never heard of it. though im not saying it didnt happen.

esmerelda1983@hotmail.com

I pastor a small Baptist church in California. Currently, I'm teaching our congregation an apologetic for the Christian faith against the false teachings of neo-paganism. I appreciate the tone of your approach. I certainly believe Christians are misguided who fail to communicate the love of God through Christ to everyone, including pagans. But, as I am sure you are aware, every movement has its "lunatic fringe." On the other hand, my own research does not encourage me to conclude the atrocities have all been on the Christian side. In fact, an honest assessment of the facts will show that pagans are far more culpable for outrageous brutality against Christians than the other way around. The problem for many students is that they fail to go back far enough. Paganism fed Christians to lions, used them for sport in arenas as they cheered their brutal murder, and hung them on crosses by the thousands. To attempt to lay at the feet of unsuspecting Christians today the charge of abuse perpetrated by those who called themselves Christians in the past at least requires you to ask the Wiccan to accept responsibility for the torture and murder of thousands upon thousands of believers. Of course, it is absurd to blame any wiccan today for crimes of their "fathers" and it is equally absurd for Christians to lay themselves down on a pagan altar to beg forgiveness for the crimes of those before us who called themselves "Christian." The facts support the conclusion that what those "Christians" did is inconsistent with Christian teaching; whereas, what the pagans did, was and is consistent within the paradigm of a pagan culture. Let us by all means engage the pagan community in a healthy, loving, but honest and earnest debate over the relative value of pagan vs Christian values and beliefs, and let's take each pagan as we find him, or her (and hopefully they will do the same); but let us not get bogged down in a game of "political-correctness" following the spirit of our age which encourages honest, sincere people to carry a false load of guilt that is used by opportunists to manipulate them. You may find that you have given away too much ground to the pagans, even confirming their false notion about "Christianity" with your mea culpa. What we need to do is educate them about the true Christian attitudes as they are taught in the Scripture and make it clear that the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Epistles do not condone witch burning any more than it encourages feeding Christians to lions. Thanks. Jerry.

[ http://www.livejournal.com/users/americalost/ ]

As a devout non-christian and former Wiccan I am really surprised at this site for printing something true unlike most other websites. I'm also impressed that Christians were investigating other Christians "testimonies" and having the courage to stand up and say that this is person is a liar.

Kudos

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